This orange-brown Ciboria or Moellerodiscus, with a darker stem, 2.5 mm, was growing on indeterminate wood, although it could also be a herbaceous remnant, in the Botanical Garden of Funchal (Madeira). It was slightly dry, I took the macro photos after hydrating it with a water spray.

Eight-spores asci, with the 8 spores of similar size, with croziers and apical apparatus IKI+, Sclerotinia type, (59.9) 61.4 - 68.3 (70.5) × (4.7) 4.8 - 5.2 (5.8) µm; Q = (10.8) 12.1 - 13.8 (14.2) ; N = 15; Me = 64.3 × 5 µm ; Qe = 12.8

Paraphyses were not in very good condition, but in some images cylindrical VBs can be seen.

Spores are variable, from ellipsoidal to fusiform and some almost cylindrical, and many are asymmetrical, apparently they have 1 nucleus, with very few LBs, of (6.3) 6.9 - 9 (9.7) × (2.3) 2.5 - 3.1 (3.5) µm; Q = (2.2) 2.5 - 3.4 (4.2) ; N = 63; Me = 7.9 × 2.8 µm ; Qe = 2.9.

Ectal excipilum with textura globulosa; medullar excipulum with textura intricata.

With Baral's keys I arrive at Ciboria viridifusca, but this grows on Alnus cones. If the apical apparatus were Hymenoscyphus type, it would be similar to Moellerodiscus tenuistipes. It also resembles M. lentus, but should have more marked LBs, although if the collection was not in good condition, it may have lost them.

Thanks in advance.

Miguel Ángel Ribes

Hans-Otto Baral, 05-08-2024 20:26

Re : Ciboria / Moellerodiscus 160424 550 wood Funchal

A pity when the substrate is unknown.

Ascus size refers to dead asci? Thise on the photo are all dead.

I would have expected VBs in the paraphyses, not sure if they were there.

Mollerodiscus is clear for me.

Miguel Ángel Ribes, 05-08-2024 22:15

Re : Ciboria / Moellerodiscus 160424 550 wood Funchal

Hi Zotto

I asked the collector if he could give me more information about the substrate.

Yes, all the asci are dead.

Tomorrow I will try to find some paraphyses pictures with VBs and I will check the substrate. 

Thank you very much.

Miguel Ángel Ribes, 06-08-2024 10:47

Re : Ciboria / Moellerodiscus 160424 550 wood Funchal

Good morning

Attached are 9 paraphyses pictures. In the first 6 it seems that there is no VBS. In the last 3 I have doubts, it is not clearly visible.

This afternoon I will check the substrate.

Thank you.

MiguelAngel Ribes.

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Hans-Otto Baral, 06-08-2024 11:11

Re : Ciboria / Moellerodiscus 160424 550 wood Funchal

The below left photo shows VBs. I think most paraphyses are dead or otherwise damaged, therefore no VBs.

So far I think this could be M. lentus.

Raúl Tena Lahoz, 06-08-2024 12:48

Re : Ciboria / Moellerodiscus 160424 550 wood Funchal

Hi Miguel Ángel & Zotto
Miguel Ángel, are you sure about croziers??? I can't find them in the images...
If they are absent, I would consider Moellerodiscus (Ciboria) aestivalis...
Raúl

Miguel Ángel Ribes, 06-08-2024 12:51

Re : Ciboria / Moellerodiscus 160424 550 wood Funchal

Yes, in the last 3 photos it seems that there could be remains of VBs, but in very damaged paraphyses.

So it seems that the only possibility is M. lentus, with spores and paraphyses with few LBs and VBs, respectively, because they are damaged and/or dead.

This afternoon I will try to find out more about the substrate.

Thnaks a lot, Zotto.

Miguel Ángel Ribes, 07-08-2024 10:14

Re : Ciboria / Moellerodiscus 160424 550 wood Funchal

Hola Raúl

In my sections of the apothecia, croziers are not clearly visible, probably due to the half-dead state of the sample. I have been guided by the base of the few asci that I can photograph separately, in which almost none have a straight line. With the attached images I still think that it has croziers, but it is true that I have not clearly seen a young cell together with its basal cell to see it clearly.

Un abrazo.

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Hans-Otto Baral, 07-08-2024 10:25

Re : Ciboria / Moellerodiscus 160424 550 wood Funchal

Better is to mount in Congo Red. Most ascus bases have clearly two basal septa. One photo shows simple septa but is it certain that these are not paraphyses?

Miguel Ángel Ribes, 07-08-2024 14:28

Re : Ciboria / Moellerodiscus 160424 550 wood Funchal

Hi Zotto.

I assume you are referring to this photo, right? The septum on the left clearly corresponds to a paraphyses, but the one on the right seems to be from an ascus.

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Hans-Otto Baral, 07-08-2024 15:20

Re : Ciboria / Moellerodiscus 160424 550 wood Funchal

Yes, I now see it better, the simple-septate branched base gives rise to a long and a short paraphysis.

Miguel Ángel Ribes, 07-08-2024 19:36

Re : Ciboria / Moellerodiscus 160424 550 wood Funchal

Ok, I thought the thing on the right was an ascus.

I'm attaching pictures of the substrate. I don't think it's a tree wood, but rather something herbaceous or the bark of some plant. It is very hard.

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Hans-Otto Baral, 11-08-2024 16:11

Re : Ciboria / Moellerodiscus 160424 550 wood Funchal

Sorry, I overlooked your post. An ascus never arises from a basal cell of a paraphysis, asci are formed on a separate system, the ascogenous hyphae.

The substrate looks very distinctive, perhaps somehting herbaceous?

Miguel Ángel Ribes, 11-08-2024 19:45

Re : Ciboria / Moellerodiscus 160424 550 wood Funchal

I never thought there were two different types of hyphae, one to form the asci and another to form the paraphyses, I always thought they were the same hyphae.

Yes, I also think it could be some kind of herbaceous plant.

Thank you Zotto.

Hans-Otto Baral, 11-08-2024 20:38

Re : Ciboria / Moellerodiscus 160424 550 wood Funchal

Croziers are never formed on paraphysogenous hyphae. Croziers are typical of a dicaryotic mycelium in which the two nuclei of the two parents divide simultaneously and need some space to move into the right cell, which happens for one division product through the crozier outgrowth. Only in the asci the two nuclei fuse and perform meiosis and usually one mitosis resulting in 8 nuclei and then 8 ascospores. Paraphyses are often uninucleate but never carry two nuclei which later fuse.

Miguel Ángel Ribes, 11-08-2024 23:10

Re : Ciboria / Moellerodiscus 160424 550 wood Funchal

Yes, I already knew all this about ascogenous hyphae and the formation of ascospores and croziers, but I had never noticed or thought about the hyphae that give rise to the paraphyses.

Thanks for the explanations.