Hi Bernard,

I am reviewing the genus, would it be possible that you send me part of your collection to work the morphology and get sequences? if you have other collections you can send it too. Send me an email and we can talk more.

Best wishes,

Luis

Personne pour confirmer l'espèce de Tympanis ??

Bernard

Tympanis is certain, yes. And T. conspersa was an earlier name for what now T. alnea is used, while T. conspersa seems to be something rare (from my memory).

It is difficult give name to species of Tympanis. You can follow the concept of Groves (1952) or the concept of Ouellete & Pirozinsky (1973). The later authors do not believe in host-specificity and only provide a key to groups base on spores germination. I do not think they were totally right, I have observed different pattern in one collection that allow you to go to different of their groups. In Groves (1952) you have a key, it is based mostly in host, morphology of apothecia and number of apothecia per cluster and asci meassures. You do not have asci meassures, so it is not possible to compare. Do you know what is the host? It is imposible for me give you a name with the information that you provide, but after review the morphology by myself and compare with my types studies maybe I can. Sorry I cannot give you an species, this is not a easy genus!

Hi Zotto, as fars as I know both names are valid. I have to work the type of T. conspersa, but some of the samples that I worked here under T. conspersa have different morphology respect to the type of T. alnea. There are reports of T. alnea mostly on Alnus, Betula and some on Populus and Sorbus and on unidentified hardwood. On the other hand T. conspersa has been reported mostly on Malus, but also some reports on Corylus, Cotoneaster, Crataegus, Populus, Pyrus, Prunus and Sorbus and on unidentified harwood also. As you can see, there are some host that are overlapp, but T. conspersa mostly on Malus and T. alnea mostly on Alnus and Betula as far as I know. 

This I have differently in my mind. Earlier I applied conspersa for Malus samples but then changed to alnea based on spore germination fide Ouellette. But I may be wrong. Yes, I remember conspersa as accepted bu redefined by Ouellette.

The paper of Ouellete and Pirozynski is kind of confusing for me. I think they are right in some aspects but not in all. We are going to combine type studies but also, some of their samples on different hosts and then try to sort out how many species we can differentiate according to the morphology, in which host they are and compare this information with sequences.

Hi Luis and Zotto, 

Many thanks for your opinion on this Tympanis. Luis, as reported in the title of the message, the host is Malus domestica.

Best regards,

Bernard

haha... sorry I read the text and not the head. Then probably T. conspersa, we will see when you send me and I compare with the type and get sequences! thanks

OK Luis, no problem…… :o)

Bernard

It seems to be a redefinition of T. alnea in Ouellette & Pirozynski:

Tympanis alnea is thus circumscribed to accommodate
forms with pruinose apothecia and
continuous ascospores, including those on Malus
that Groves assigned to T. conspersa, which has
one-septate ascospores, as will be shown later
(p. 1905). Karsten's specimen selected by Groves
as the neotype of T. alnea is here referred to T.
hysterioides (p. 1904).

T. conspersa is group B-4 on Sorbus. The comprehensive collection data of alni p. 1895 include samples on Malus named conspersa by Groves.

Ah OK Zotto, thank you for this information !

Bernard