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Two different Hymenoscyphus serotinus?
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
11-02-2015 00:47
Good nightI have two different collection of Hymenoscyphus serotinus, 021014 01 and 101014 98, both from Ordesa on Abies alba branch, that fits Ok on spores, asci, euamyloid, croziers + and medullar excipulum, buth I see different ectal excipullum. Both ectal are textura prismatica, more or less parallel to the edge, but one of then has perpendicular hyaline straight hairs and the other has curved hairs with guttules inside.
In the next 2 posts are the details.
Thank you.
Miguel Á. Ribes
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
11-02-2015 01:06
Re : Two different Hymenoscyphus serotinus?
Hymenoscyphus serotinus 101014 98
Macro: Stalked, pale yellow inside and outside, in situ. Days later in the fridge, hymenium pale yellow and outside with grey-brown lines.
Spores curved, plenty of small LBs, (17.9) 19.9 - 26.0 (29.1) x (2.7) 3.1 - 3.7 (4.0) µm
Q = (5.4) 5.8 - 7.5 (10.1); N = 72; Me = 22.8 x 3.4 µm ; Qe = 6.7.
Ectal excipulum with textura prismatica and perpendicular hyaline hairs. Days later, external layer with thick brown prismatical cells, more and more subglobose at base.
Macro: Stalked, pale yellow inside and outside, in situ. Days later in the fridge, hymenium pale yellow and outside with grey-brown lines.
Spores curved, plenty of small LBs, (17.9) 19.9 - 26.0 (29.1) x (2.7) 3.1 - 3.7 (4.0) µm
Q = (5.4) 5.8 - 7.5 (10.1); N = 72; Me = 22.8 x 3.4 µm ; Qe = 6.7.
Ectal excipulum with textura prismatica and perpendicular hyaline hairs. Days later, external layer with thick brown prismatical cells, more and more subglobose at base.
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
11-02-2015 01:11
Re : Two different Hymenoscyphus serotinus?
Hymenoscyphus serotinus 021014 01
Macro: Stalked, pale yellow inside and outside. Sorry, I have no picture. None change after fridge.
Spores curved, plenty of small LBs, (17.7) 19.3 - 25.9 (27.4) x (3.0) 3.4 - 4.0 (4.4) µm
Q = (4.7) 5.1 - 7.4 (8.0); N = 52; Me = 22.4 x 3.7 µm ; Qe = 6.1
Ectal excipulum with textura prismatica and curly hairs with small guttules inside.
Hans-Otto Baral,
11-02-2015 07:41
Re : Two different Hymenoscyphus serotinus?
Hi Miguel
the black rind of the first I have never seen in H. serotinus so far, but it might corespond to the black mould at the stipe base of that species.
Have you ever looked at the wood anatomy of the two? Abies and Fagus grow together in montane forests.
Zotto
the black rind of the first I have never seen in H. serotinus so far, but it might corespond to the black mould at the stipe base of that species.
Have you ever looked at the wood anatomy of the two? Abies and Fagus grow together in montane forests.
Zotto
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
11-02-2015 08:37
Re : Two different Hymenoscyphus serotinus?
Hi Zotto
I will check the woods this afternoom.
I never thought about a mould, it looks like perfectly integrated in the apos anatomy, incredible. But, what about the two different kind on hairs: straight and curly? Are you thinking in two different species in two different substrated, Fagus and Abies?
Thanks a lot, Zotto.
I will check the woods this afternoom.
I never thought about a mould, it looks like perfectly integrated in the apos anatomy, incredible. But, what about the two different kind on hairs: straight and curly? Are you thinking in two different species in two different substrated, Fagus and Abies?
Thanks a lot, Zotto.
Hans-Otto Baral,
11-02-2015 09:12
Re : Two different Hymenoscyphus serotinus?
H. serotinus actually grows in a black mould which probably belongs to the fungus.
I cannot explaien the difference in hairs. The guttules are probably VBs which occur typically in the cortex of the excipulum in many Hymenoscyphi. The projecting hairs might tell for a humid air condition during growth. You didn't keep them in a moist box for a whjle?
I cannot explaien the difference in hairs. The guttules are probably VBs which occur typically in the cortex of the excipulum in many Hymenoscyphi. The projecting hairs might tell for a humid air condition during growth. You didn't keep them in a moist box for a whjle?
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
11-02-2015 11:03
Re : Two different Hymenoscyphus serotinus?
Interesting, next time I will pay more attention to find the mould with loupe in the apos base.
Both samples were kept in the same conditions: inside a small hermetic soft plastic bag (the same I used to pick and preserve the collection in the field) in the fridge.
Best wishes.
Both samples were kept in the same conditions: inside a small hermetic soft plastic bag (the same I used to pick and preserve the collection in the field) in the fridge.
Best wishes.
Hans-Otto Baral,
11-02-2015 11:14
Re : Two different Hymenoscyphus serotinus?
o.k., but for how long time in the fridge?
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
11-02-2015 11:34
Re : Two different Hymenoscyphus serotinus?
Hymenoscyphus 101014 98: 18 days later, it has the mould in outer surface
* Collected: 10/10/2014
* Micro: 28/10/2014
Hymenoscyphus 021014 01: 19 days later, it hasn't the mould in outer surface
* Collected: 2/10/2014
* Micro: 21/10/2014
I tried to do micro as soon as possible, but when I have de fridge full of ascos, it is difficult, so some of then die or rot.
* Collected: 10/10/2014
* Micro: 28/10/2014
Hymenoscyphus 021014 01: 19 days later, it hasn't the mould in outer surface
* Collected: 2/10/2014
* Micro: 21/10/2014
I tried to do micro as soon as possible, but when I have de fridge full of ascos, it is difficult, so some of then die or rot.
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
12-02-2015 11:42
Re : Two different Hymenoscyphus serotinus?
Yesterday I checked the woods and both are conifers.
Hans-Otto Baral,
12-02-2015 11:52
Re : Two different Hymenoscyphus serotinus?
So we must rewrite our article on H. serotinus :-(
You say the apos are now without dark mould outside? But the hairs are still different?
Did you make photos of the wood cut because this result is so astonishing that it should be documented. There is an old experience uttered by German Krieglsteiner that fungi on Fagus are likely to be occasionally seen also on Abies.
You say the apos are now without dark mould outside? But the hairs are still different?
Did you make photos of the wood cut because this result is so astonishing that it should be documented. There is an old experience uttered by German Krieglsteiner that fungi on Fagus are likely to be occasionally seen also on Abies.
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
12-02-2015 22:36
Re : Two different Hymenoscyphus serotinus?
I am sorry, sorry, sorry, Fagus branch, no doubt. Nowadays I have my desk plenty of samples and I checked another exsicatas.
About mould and hair...
Hymenoscyphus serotinus sample 101014 98:
* I collected it on 10/10/2014, it hasn't mould at outer surface.
* I made micro on 28/10/2014, 18 days later, it has mould at outer surface and straight hairs.
Hymenoscyphus serotinus sample 021014 01:
* I collected it on 2/10/2014, it hasn't mould at outer surface.
* I made micro on 21/10/2014, 19 days later, it hasn't mould at outer surface and curly hairs.
Both samples were conserved at fridge inside a plastic bag.
Thanks.
About mould and hair...
Hymenoscyphus serotinus sample 101014 98:
* I collected it on 10/10/2014, it hasn't mould at outer surface.
* I made micro on 28/10/2014, 18 days later, it has mould at outer surface and straight hairs.
Hymenoscyphus serotinus sample 021014 01:
* I collected it on 2/10/2014, it hasn't mould at outer surface.
* I made micro on 21/10/2014, 19 days later, it hasn't mould at outer surface and curly hairs.
Both samples were conserved at fridge inside a plastic bag.
Thanks.
Hans-Otto Baral,
12-02-2015 22:47
Re : Two different Hymenoscyphus serotinus?
O.k., then I can relax :-)
This mould is actually interesting, and I assume it would be also produced in pure culture from ascospores. I am quite sure that you have only one species, though these hairs are a strange thing.
This mould is actually interesting, and I assume it would be also produced in pure culture from ascospores. I am quite sure that you have only one species, though these hairs are a strange thing.
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
12-02-2015 22:58
Re : Two different Hymenoscyphus serotinus?
Do you want some material to try the culture, is it possible with dried material?