Hi Steve,

Just a rough guess - but maybe Allophylaria campanuliformis?

The expected habitat would be on Pteridium or other fern stems from the FRDBI.

Sadly I can't find this species on Zotto's Cubby collection for comparison, but one description is here (as Phialea campanuliformis)

https://archive.org/stream/drlrabenhorstskr0103rabe#page/738/mode/2up

The described ascospores are about 2 microns shorter than yours, the asci 50-60 vs your 100 microns, and there maybe other morphological differences in the text, but it might be worth looking into as a likely candidate.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me in this group will chime in!

Cheers,

Brian

Thanks Brian, that's very useful. I'm getting a lot of respect for Bracken these days!
Steve

I always wondered what discos decomposed bracken - I could never find any the few times I've looked! But the bracken probably wasn't damp enough.

Also - if you want to properly characterise finds like these, and get the best ID, it's worth taking photographs in water first before staining to maximise visualisation of the living characters. A cross-section would help, although it's very tricky with tiny things like these (I slice them on some damp lens tissue with a razor blade under a stereo microscope), or maybe a squash preparation.  The ascospores should shoot out eventually if you put a living apothecium in a droplet of water.

You can also add scale bars and measure using ImageJ and the scalebar tools for microscopes (http://www.swarthmore.edu/NatSci/nkaplin1/scalebar.htm), or Richard Shotbolt's MycoCam 4 (http://www.shotbolt.com/shop/shop.htm).

Zotto's images for collections for Allophylaria are here if you want to compare:

https://www.cubbyusercontent.com/pl/CC+Ascomycota/_1354d48ffaad4b59bd3ffdbb35915d1f#CC%20Ascomycota/7a%20Helotiales/Hyaloscyphaceae%20with%20VBs%20(Pezizellaceae)/Allophylaria

Hope some of that helps!

Cheers,

Brian

Thanks again Brian, I have the specimen in my herbarium - I'll have another look at it. I'll put some scale bars on too. I suppose Rhopographis filicinum must have an effect in the decomposition of Bracken as it's maybe the commonest fungus in the Peak District - but often ignored or unrecognised - I wondered what the black spots were for years!
Cheers,
Steve

Hello Steve,

It may be worth considering Allophylaria filicum (Species 203 in Ascomycetes in Colour).

Although in the FRDBI this is considered to be a synonym of A. campanuliformis, this is incorrect, as there is, in fact, a significant difference. A. filicum produces a negative reaction to the ascus tip in lugol. A. campanuliformis produces a bright blue reaction.

In Britain, A. filicum is more commonly encountered on ferns, though I do not list bracken among them. There should be signs of the fruit bodies becoming pinkish when damaged.

Incidentally, I have been creating additional species pages for the last year and have so far added 116 species to the 700 in my book. Please advise me if you would like to receive these.

With Best Wishes,
Peter.

Hi Peter,
Firstly, many thanks for giving us you amazing book on Ascos - it's an invaluable guide to ID for us in our survey of the fungi of the Longshaw estate in Derbyshire.
Secondly, thanks for helping us with the ID of this little Disco on Bracken. Two of us are working on it.
Thirdly, I would be very pleased to receive your updates.
I did find a Disco similar to Allophylaria filicum this spring. It was on dead stems of Hart's Tongue Fern. It was white, but when pricked with a pin it turned yellow and then red, in about 5 mins. I was under the impression that this was Psilachnum chrysostigna var. varicolor.
Best wishes,
Steve 

Saw this thread only now. I have a probem with A. filicum, as you seem to have identified this collection: I know A. filicum only with inamyloid asci (in IKI), while these here are strongly hemiamyloid (probably first blue then red). So A. campanuliformis woud be an option, though I know that taxon quite badly.

Zotto

Hello Steve,

Thank you for your reply, and I hope that my book is helpful with your identifications. I always recommend that as many sources of information as possible about ascomycetes are consulted.

One example is that my image of Mollisia cinerea shows mature, young fruit bodies in good condition, whereas in Fungi of Switzerland, volume 1 older fruit bodies which have become lobed and pale grey are illustrated. Both images are equally valid, but very different from each other. 

I believe that Psilachnum chrysostigmum var. varicolor is a synonym of P. chrysostigmum, with the latter as the current name. It certainly looks that way in Index/Species Fungorum as well.

Regarding my additional species pages, I should communicate by email, as I can then provide a link to my dropbox. Is your email address shown on Ascofrance the best to use?

With Best Wishes,
Peter.

Thankyou Zotto,
I'll have another look at the herbarium specimen and chack for colour changes re Lugol, Meltzers etc, also any colour changes to the Disco itself - though  I'm aware  of the possibility of the dead spores and ascocarps reacting differently to the live ones.
Steve

Hello Peter,
I think that the value of your book is that it provides a very much-needed catalogue of ascos in colour photos, so you can see what the fungus actually looks like - using  key, basic text and diagram such as Ellis and Ellis can be very misleading as I am rapidly finding out. Yes - my email address at AscoFrance is fine. We are finding many, many ascos during our survey of the Longshaw Estate - any additional help such as your updates is much appreciated.
Steve

Hi Brian, Peter, Zotto
I have had another look at the Asco on Bracken - here are some more pictures.
Picture 1 - spores and asci:
The spores which I eventually forced out (not ideal I know) were 10-15 x3-4 (in water). They seem to be 1-septate, with rounded ends. Asci are 55-65 x7 (in water).

Picture 2 - Asci tips. In Meltzers there was hardly any reaction - if at all - just the faintest of pale blue (I changed the colour balance a little as my scope is LED and gives a blueish ambience to everything). But in Lugol, everything turned reddish brown, and there was a dark ascus tip reaction. All in all I'd say that there was no bluing of the ascus tip with iodine reagents.

Picture 3 - Squash in water, Meltzers and Lugol - to show the difference.

Picture 4 - Macro photos, showing no colour change in the cut apothecia - but is is a rehydrated specimen. However, I didn't notice colour changes in the fresh sample.

Picture 5 - the best stacked image I can manage until I get a more wobble-free set-up. The apothecia are just over  a third of a mm across. 

Am I best to leave this as Allophylaria sp?
Many thanks for the help,
Steve

Hi Steve,

I'd probably go for Allophylaria cf. campanuliformis for now.  But if you can, it would be worth checking whether your species is hemiamyloid as Zotto suggested - try diluting the Lugol's solution a little bit, and also try the Lugol reaction after KOH pretreatment.

Have a look at Zotto's page on hemiamyloid reactions here (if you've not seen it already!): http://www.gbif-mycology.de/HostedSites/Baral/IodineReaction.htm

There's been no DNA work on Allophylaria at all, so I have no idea how diverse this group really is or how good the species concepts are. Keep hold of your collection - it might be useful in sorting this out sometime!

Cheers,

Brian

Thanks again Brian,
It's amazing how much you learn by looking at stuff like this - I'll look at Zotto's page - I have plenty of ascocarps left to try with Zotto's advice on hemiamyloid reactions. I've only had the decent microscope since January so it's a steep learning curve,
Best regards,
Steve

The second image in the last batch of five looks hemiamyloid to me . . .
Chris

Many thanks Chris.