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Cheilymenia on deer dung
Zuzana Sochorová (Egertová),
09-06-2014 09:32
Hi,I have got a problem with this Cheilymenia.
Apothecia up to 2 mm, orange, flat, rounded, sessile, with brownish hairs at the margin.
Spores 23,5-26 x 11,5-13,5 micrometers, 8 in the asci, ellipsoid, hyaline, with very tiny warts or short lines visible in cotton blue, a small guttule in the centre is visible in some spores.
Asci 200-210 x 12-13 micrometers, no reaction with Lugol.
Paraphyses with orange granules, becoming dark green with Lugol, broad 3-4 micrometers, with a broadened apex - up to 8 micrometers.
Hairs up to 870 micrometers long, up to 32 micrometers broad, brownish, thick-walled (up to 5,5 micrometers), some of them branched.
Locality: Harrachova jáma, Giant Mountains, Czech republic, 6.6.2014, on deer dung (together with Pseudombrophila equina).
The most similar species I have seen at mycological pages in the internet is Cheilymenia megaspora, but unfortunatelly I don´t have got Jiri Moravec´s monograph to compare my species with the similar ones.
Thanks for every oppinion! Zuzana
René Dougoud,
09-06-2014 10:45
Re : Cheilymenia on deer dung
Chère Collègue,
Je pense qu'il s'agit très certainement de Cheilymenia stercorea (Pers.:Fr.) Boud. f. stercorea.
Amicalement
René
Je pense qu'il s'agit très certainement de Cheilymenia stercorea (Pers.:Fr.) Boud. f. stercorea.
Amicalement
René
Peter Püwert,
09-06-2014 10:52
Re : Cheilymenia on deer dung
Hi Zuzana,
for me its Cheilymenia megaspora (Gamundi) Moravec. In our distrikt we found the fungus on deer and roe deer dung associated with Ps. equina too. In our mountain region not rare.
Greetings
Peter.
for me its Cheilymenia megaspora (Gamundi) Moravec. In our distrikt we found the fungus on deer and roe deer dung associated with Ps. equina too. In our mountain region not rare.
Greetings
Peter.
Zuzana Sochorová (Egertová),
09-06-2014 10:55
Re : Cheilymenia on deer dung
Dear René,
thank you very much for determination. I have excluded Cheilymenia stercorea because of size of spores - in the key in Nordic Macromycetes it´s written 16.5-20 x 8-10 micrometers and then I didn´t check Cheilymenia stercorea f. stercorea.
Amicalement
Zuzana
thank you very much for determination. I have excluded Cheilymenia stercorea because of size of spores - in the key in Nordic Macromycetes it´s written 16.5-20 x 8-10 micrometers and then I didn´t check Cheilymenia stercorea f. stercorea.
Amicalement
Zuzana
Peter Püwert,
09-06-2014 10:57
Re : Cheilymenia on deer dung
Hi all,
I have not seen the starformed hairs. Its of course Ch. stercorea !
Greetings
Peter.
I have not seen the starformed hairs. Its of course Ch. stercorea !
Greetings
Peter.
Zuzana Sochorová (Egertová),
09-06-2014 11:00
Re : Cheilymenia on deer dung
Thank you very much, Peter. I´m little bit confused now, because there are (at least) two different oppinions here... what should be the differences between Cheilymenia stercorea f. stercorea and Cheilymenia megaspora?
Zuzana Sochorová (Egertová),
09-06-2014 11:01
Re : Cheilymenia on deer dung
OK. I´m glad it´s clear now :-) Thanks a lot!
Zuzana Sochorová (Egertová),
09-06-2014 11:17
Re : Cheilymenia on deer dung
What literature do you use for determinating Cheilymenia? Jiri Moravec´s monograph + some articles? Please, could someone send me a copied key to Cheilymenia (I have got a key from Nordic Macromycetes and Ascomiceti d´Italia)? zuzka.egertova@seznam.cz
René Dougoud,
09-06-2014 11:40
Re : Cheilymenia on deer dung
Chers Suzana et Tous,
Moravec indique, pour C stercorea, des ascospores mesurant (15-) 16-23 (-24) x (7,5-) 9-12,5 (-13 µm). C'est la seule espèce ayant des poils étoilés ayant de si grandes sascospores. Le fait que vous ayez mesuré des ascospores un peu plus grandes ne me pose pas de problème, celà fait partie de la variabillité.
La guttule centrale que vous indiquez avoir vu est sans doute le noyau de l'ascospore.
Enfin outre la forme basale simple des poils, C megaspora (Gamundi) J Moravec à des ascospore mesurant, selon Moravec, (19,5-) 21,5-27,5 (31,2 x (12-) 12,5-13,7 (-15,4).
Amicalement
René
Moravec indique, pour C stercorea, des ascospores mesurant (15-) 16-23 (-24) x (7,5-) 9-12,5 (-13 µm). C'est la seule espèce ayant des poils étoilés ayant de si grandes sascospores. Le fait que vous ayez mesuré des ascospores un peu plus grandes ne me pose pas de problème, celà fait partie de la variabillité.
La guttule centrale que vous indiquez avoir vu est sans doute le noyau de l'ascospore.
Enfin outre la forme basale simple des poils, C megaspora (Gamundi) J Moravec à des ascospore mesurant, selon Moravec, (19,5-) 21,5-27,5 (31,2 x (12-) 12,5-13,7 (-15,4).
Amicalement
René
René Dougoud,
09-06-2014 11:44
Re : Cheilymenia on deer dung
Suzana,
Je vous envoi prochainement un scann de la description de C stercorea
René
Je vous envoi prochainement un scann de la description de C stercorea
René
Peter Püwert,
09-06-2014 16:35
Re : Cheilymenia on deer dung
Hi Zuzana,
You find quite a lot of litt. than digital file.
BRUMMELEN, J. van (1995): A World- monograph of the Genus Pseudombrophila (Pezizales, Ascomycotina).
Libri Botanici 14. Eching, MORAVEC, J. (2005): A World Monograph of the genus Cheilymenia. Libri Botanici 21. Eching, etc. I found these in the "net", but ask me not, how and where. Some separate articles I use too. Perhaps can an other user help, to provide important litt. about the "net" .
Greetings
Peter.
You find quite a lot of litt. than digital file.
BRUMMELEN, J. van (1995): A World- monograph of the Genus Pseudombrophila (Pezizales, Ascomycotina).
Libri Botanici 14. Eching, MORAVEC, J. (2005): A World Monograph of the genus Cheilymenia. Libri Botanici 21. Eching, etc. I found these in the "net", but ask me not, how and where. Some separate articles I use too. Perhaps can an other user help, to provide important litt. about the "net" .
Greetings
Peter.
Zuzana Sochorová (Egertová),
09-06-2014 21:16
Re : Cheilymenia on deer dung
Thanks a lot, Peter and René.