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Pyronemataceae
Iglesias Plácido, 11-12-2011 01:58
A ver si me dais alguna idea del Género para empezar a mirar. Encontrado sobre tronco musgoso de Eryca arborea
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Alain GARDIENNET, 11-12-2011 08:42
Alain GARDIENNET
Re : Pyronemataceae

Very interesting fungus !
Is it sure it comes on mosses. Could it grow on wood under mosses ?
Did you test Melzer reaction? I think it should be J+.
Apparently your cut is horizontal. Perhaps a vertical cut would be better to see and understand how is your fungus. Perhaps a Xylariaceae...
Alain
PS : you should change the title of this discussion ; for example : "Xylariaceae on mosses ?" bcause some ones among us won't look at discussion if the subject is "Pyronemataceae".

Jacques Fournier, 11-12-2011 09:28
Jacques Fournier
Re : Pyronemataceae
very interesting indeed!
The spores are two-celled and the perithecia polystichous, which makes this fungus unlikely a Xylariaceae. Like Alain I wonder if the apical apparatus is going to react with iodine.
 Such stromata with polystichous perithecia can be encountered in Boliniaceae. Can you make out a pore at any end of the spores? Observation in KOH may help to see a pore when it is inconspicuous.
Thanks for coming back with more details.
Cheers,
Jacques
Raúl Tena Lahoz, 11-12-2011 11:57
Raúl Tena Lahoz
Re : Pyronemataceae
Hola Plácido, Alain & Jacques ;-)

I found this this article where Vasylyeva changed Bolinia lutea to Camaropella:
http://www.fungaldiversity.org/fdp/sfdp/25-13.pdf
Also a key to Camaropella is given, but no such big spores in that genus...


Apiocamarops has two-celled spores, but soft whitish stroma... it looks different:
http://www.cybertruffle.org.uk/cyberliber/59350/0080/005/0738.htm


Saludos,
Raúl

Alain GARDIENNET, 11-12-2011 13:37
Alain GARDIENNET
Re : Pyronemataceae
Thank you Raul for helping us.
I just want to say that I loose a little my understandings in taxonomy with the first paper. For example, how is born the genus Camaropella ? I haven't the 1997-paper ot the author. Is there molecular study ? I need explanations.
Alain
Iglesias Plácido, 11-12-2011 13:44
Re : Pyronemataceae
Hola Alain, salia sobre madera de Eryca, no sobre musgo. El corte es vertical (adjunto otra foto). La reacción con Meltzer no he probado, si he probado con IKI y es débil (adjunto foto). He puesto Pyrenomataceae porque no tengo experiencia con este tipo de Ascos.

Hello Alain, was going out on wood of Eryca, not on moss. The court is vertical (I enclose another photo). The reaction with Meltzer I have not tried, if I have tried with IKI and it is weak (I enclose photo). I have put Pyrenomataceae because I have no experience with this type of Ascos.
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Jacques Fournier, 11-12-2011 13:55
Jacques Fournier
Re : Pyronemataceae
thanks Iglesias,
the apical apparatus seems indeed amyloid. This character combined with two-celled brown  ascospores suggests affinities with Amphisphaeriaceae but I am not aware of any genus or species with such a stroma.
Can you send me a part of your collection, simply air dried for some days? Please do not mail it fresh in a plastic bag, it would arrive mouldy!

My address is

"Las Muros"
F 09420 Rimont

Cheers,
Jacques
Iglesias Plácido, 11-12-2011 13:57
Re : Pyronemataceae
Hola Jacques, miraré con KOH para aclarar algo si se puede.

Hello Jacques, I will look with KOH to clarify something if it can.
Jacques Fournier, 11-12-2011 13:57
Jacques Fournier
Re : Pyronemataceae
Alain tu devrais poser la question à l'auteur (auteuse?), elle seule connaît peut être la réponse.
Jacques
Iglesias Plácido, 11-12-2011 14:00
Re : Pyronemataceae
Gracias Raul, seguiremos mirando. Es de La Gomera de finales de noviembre.
Iglesias Plácido, 11-12-2011 14:02
Re : Pyronemataceae
De acuerdo Jacques, te envío un trozo.

Saludos
Guy Garcia, 12-12-2011 13:40
Re : Pyronemataceae
Salut Alain,
Si ça peut faire ton bonheur, le voilà !
Amitiés, Guy
Alain GARDIENNET, 12-12-2011 23:15
Alain GARDIENNET
Re : Pyronemataceae
Salut Guy,
Toujours aussi sympa et documenté !
Merci,
Alain
Iglesias Plácido, 12-12-2011 23:52
Re : Pyronemataceae
Adjunto foto micro en Meltzer y con KOH como pedía Jacques.
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Jacques Fournier, 18-12-2011 13:58
Jacques Fournier
Re : Pyronemataceae
Hola Iglesias,

the microscopic features do resemble those of Amphisphaeria but no species with such a stroma is known occur in this genus.
Hope examination of your collection will help.
Jacques
Iglesias Plácido, 19-12-2011 00:03
Re : Pyronemataceae
El día 14 te he enviado una muestra.

Un saludo

I have sent to you a sample on Thursday 14.
 
 A greeting
Jacques Fournier, 24-12-2011 15:45
Jacques Fournier
Re : Pyronemataceae
Hola Placido,
first sorry for having mistaken your first name with your surname!
Upon careful examination of your specimen, the apical apparatus of asci does not react with iodine, neither in Lugol nor Melzer (photo 2). It just turns faintly greenish yellow, which may be amplified by taking or processing the photo, as it probably occurred in the photos you attached.
Moreover an unconspicuous pore can be seen at either the proximal or distal end, more easily on immature less pigmented spores (black arrows).
All microscopic characters fit quite well the genus Pseudovalsaria Spooner, currently placed in Boiliniaceae, but the superficial turbinate stromata of your collection are very different from the small immersed stromata encountered in the type species P. ferruginea and P. peckii.
Further studies are still needed but it might well be a new species in that genus.
Anyway a very nice find!
Feliz Navidad!
Jacques
Iglesias Plácido, 26-12-2011 23:57
Re : Pyronemataceae
Hola Jacques, las fotos de micro no están retocadas, me da la impresión en mis fotos que si reaccionan al Iodo, ¿quizás las tuyas no reaccionan por estar secas?
No tengo ninguna experiencia con el género Pseudovalsaria, si quieres algún dato más sobre nuestra recolección no tienes más que pedirmelo.

Un saludo y Feliz Navidad a todos,   Plácido

Hello Jacques, the photos of micro are not retouched, it gives me the impression in my photos that if they react to the Iodo: perhaps do not yours react for being dry?
 I do not have any experience with the genre Pseudovalsaria, if you want any fact more on our compilation you have only to ask me for it.
 
 A greeting and Happy Christmas to all,      Placido
Jacques Fournier, 27-12-2011 18:40
Jacques Fournier
Re : Pyronemataceae
Hola Placido,
I agree this is a bit troublesome. I can just suggest some possible explanations, most often the illumination of the microscope (too yellow) and/or the achromatic objectives account for artifacts in colours observed through the microscope.
The white balance settings of the digital camera may be also involved. I never observed variations in iodine reaction depending on fresh or dry state.
To see what a genuine blue amyloid reaction is, you should try with a specimen of Hypoxylon or Xylaria.

Cheers,

Jacques