Hymenoscyphus like - Forum ASCOFrance

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Hymenoscyphus like

Khomenko Igor, 01-06-2021 17:48

Hi,
I recently found these three Hymenoscyphus around Ottawa, ON, Canada, and I was unable to identify them by myself. I still have fresh material in a fridge if something needs to be rechecked.
If someone could help with all or some of them I will be very appreciative.

#1 Hymenoscyphus Cudoniella group?
On buried wood.
https://inaturalist.org/observations/80770446

#2
On rotten leaves (probably Acer).
https://inaturalist.org/observations/80526192

#3
On rotten leaves (probably Betula).
https://inaturalist.org/observations/80526469 A-inamyloid
https://inaturalist.org/observations/81606383 B-amyloid

Thank you for your help,
Igor

Hans-Otto Baral, 01-06-2021 21:51

Re : Hymenoscyphus like

Hi Igor

the first seems to be H. kathiae.

The second reminds me a bit of H. repandus, but that is probably wrong.

The third should be H. immutabilis.

Zotto

Khomenko Igor, 02-06-2021 06:17

Re : Hymenoscyphus like

Thank you Zotto.

These H. kathiae and H. immutabilis are different. I've previously seen H. kathiae with larger spores and H. immutabilis IKI+ only.
I haven't seen true H. repandus, so I will need to do more reading.

Igor

Hans-Otto Baral, 02-06-2021 08:51

Re : Hymenoscyphus like

The kathiae spores are a bit short, yes, but I think it comes close, perhaps variation. The species was described in the US but is frequent also in Europe, though less that the similar H. imberbis.

H. immutabilis is IKI+, yes. Anyway, I know cases where the iodine reaction is variable, e.g. in Phaeohelotium epiphyllum.

Michel Hairaud, 03-06-2021 15:27

Re : Hymenoscyphus like

Bonjour Igor,
Il n'y a pas du tout de couche gélatineuse autour des jeunes apothécies de ta récolte N°3 ?

Amitiés.Michel

Khomenko Igor, 03-06-2021 21:53

Re : Hymenoscyphus like

Michel, I made a sectional of #3 and it was easy to cut, so I don't think there is any gelatinous layer, but I'm not good with sectional nor textura.

Thank you Zotto, I understand that IKI reaction does not determine the species, but the presence of croziers does and I have croziers in #3 (H. immutabilis). I got strong IKI+b after KOH for #3, but I'm not certain that this is the right type, but maybe I shouldn't expect the same look of apical apparatus after KOH.

I uploaded pictures of #3 https://inaturalist.org/observations/80526469

Hans-Otto Baral, 03-06-2021 22:33

Re : Hymenoscyphus like

Your section is good, the prismatic structure could be o.k. or not, I am not sure. But the amyloid rings are a surprise! Your Lugol photo shows a high iodine concentration. Could it be that the apos that you now studied were also amyloid without KOH?

Khomenko Igor, 03-06-2021 23:58

Re : Hymenoscyphus like

Zotto, you are right.
I'm getting an amyloid reaction from the specimen from one leaf (with or without KOH).
And I retested the specimen from the first leaf, I'm getting only an inamyloid reaction (with and without KOH).
They all look the same to me, but I'm getting a different reaction. They are from different spots of the same forest.
Should I treat them as two different species?

Hans-Otto Baral, 04-06-2021 08:07

Re : Hymenoscyphus like

I believe when there are no correlated features I would not think they are different taxa. With DNA we could find out this and also more about the identity of this collection.

Khomenko Igor, 06-06-2021 18:36

Re : Hymenoscyphus like

Thanks again Zotto.
I split them into two collections IKI+ and IKI-. I'm going to keep specimens if someone wants to study them in the future.

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