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An Incrupila like collection
Michel Hairaud,
12-03-2014 11:46
Bonjour à tous, Hi to all, Je sollicite votre aide pour la détermination de cette récolte ou vos commentaires .
Substrat : Tige de Yucca gloriosa (soc : Patellaria atrata )
Apothécies : , --> 1,5 mm, urcéolées puis étalées-discoides , grisâtre avec une nuance d'olivâtre, hymenium crème à jaunâtre.
Surface externe recouverte de poils --> 35 µm , 1-2 septa , englués dans une gangue de cristaux grossiers , rempli de vacuoles réfringentes (comme dans les paraphyses) à CRB +.
Asques 45-55 x 5,5-6 (7), H+, IKI - PS 22-24 µm
EE T. prismatica , orientation à angle faible, cellules à guttules peu réfringentes, 10-15 x 3,5-6 µm
EM plus étroite, T. intricata , cellules x 2-3,5
Il me semble que des tissus gélatineux sont présents mais ne parviens pas à les mettre en évidence avec le CRB (?)
Paraphyses : VBs ++ CRB +, x 2-3,5
Spores lisses, OCI 1-2, 7-10 x 2-2,5
Je ne trouve pas de corespondance pour une espèce du genre Incrupila ou Hyphodiscus dans la littérature dont je dispose.
I thought this collection would belong in Incrupila (or Hyphodiscus ?) but cannot find any species matching in the literature I have
Merci
Michel
Raúl Tena Lahoz,
12-03-2014 11:57
Re : An Incrupila like collection
What about Cyathicula?
Amitiés,
Raúl
Amitiés,
Raúl
Hans-Otto Baral,
12-03-2014 12:25
Re : An Incrupila like collection
Yes! With VB++ you refer to the multiguttulate paraphyses. This species is actually not easily recognized as a Cyathicula, I was also deceived the first time.
It fits C. nigrofusca in my opinion. The inamyloid asci characteristic of C. nigrofusca underline its desiccation-tolerance. The brown colour of cortical ectal cells cause a dark appearance especially when dry.
Zotto
It fits C. nigrofusca in my opinion. The inamyloid asci characteristic of C. nigrofusca underline its desiccation-tolerance. The brown colour of cortical ectal cells cause a dark appearance especially when dry.
Zotto
Michel Hairaud,
12-03-2014 14:29
Re : An Incrupila like collection
Yes of course ! Ha Ha :-) !
Bien joué Raoul et Zotto !
I did not think about Cyathicula at all ! I was deceived by the lack of stipe and the thick layer of crystals.
Strange that Carpenter says ''Crystals not observed on the outer surface of the apothecium''
I wonder whether C. complicata is actually different . The main difference in Capenter's key is the woody substrate and we know that Yucca welcomes species ordinary found on wood (Unguiculariopsis ilicincola for exemple) .
Moreover they both (nigrofuscum and complicata) occur in Alpine and Boreal zones, which leaves no doubt as to my collection for I collected it on the very sea side of Ile de Ré -:)
It's very kind of you Zotto to say it's a difficult species to place at first sight in Cyathicula and that you were once also decceived . It gives me much hope to become a mycologist in the future -:)
It also fits with Jean Paul's fiche on Ascofrance :
http://www.ascofrance.fr/search_recolte/1636
Thank you ever so much anyway both of you friends !
Amitiés
Michel
Bien joué Raoul et Zotto !
I did not think about Cyathicula at all ! I was deceived by the lack of stipe and the thick layer of crystals.
Strange that Carpenter says ''Crystals not observed on the outer surface of the apothecium''
I wonder whether C. complicata is actually different . The main difference in Capenter's key is the woody substrate and we know that Yucca welcomes species ordinary found on wood (Unguiculariopsis ilicincola for exemple) .
Moreover they both (nigrofuscum and complicata) occur in Alpine and Boreal zones, which leaves no doubt as to my collection for I collected it on the very sea side of Ile de Ré -:)
It's very kind of you Zotto to say it's a difficult species to place at first sight in Cyathicula and that you were once also decceived . It gives me much hope to become a mycologist in the future -:)
It also fits with Jean Paul's fiche on Ascofrance :
http://www.ascofrance.fr/search_recolte/1636
Thank you ever so much anyway both of you friends !
Amitiés
Michel
Enrique Rubio,
12-03-2014 17:26
Re : An Incrupila like collection
Hi Michel
We have collected nigrofuscum (on Cortaderia selloana) and complicatum (on Sarothamnus) in Asturias at 600 and 400 m respectively.
Regards
Enrique
Hans-Otto Baral,
12-03-2014 17:42
Re : An Incrupila like collection
My first record of C. nigrofusca was on a real herb in a submediterranean area near Madrid. Yes, this is strange, also with the crystals.
I know C. complicata from a single find (in Cubby) by P. Perz 20050816-001: On wet cut surface of branch of "Prunus sp.", surface little rotten. Ap. rehydr. 0.5-0.8 mm diam. Asci KOH 48-57 x 4.8-5.5 µm, apex +/- hemisph., thin-walled, IKI-, with croziers. Sp. *7-9 x 2.3-2.7 µm, straight, ellipsoid-subclavate, OCl 1-1.5 a few small LBs near each end.
Piotr was quite sure about the identity. Well, I see that the characters are very similar to nigrofusca too. So the name complicata is a good choice :-)
Zotto
I know C. complicata from a single find (in Cubby) by P. Perz 20050816-001: On wet cut surface of branch of "Prunus sp.", surface little rotten. Ap. rehydr. 0.5-0.8 mm diam. Asci KOH 48-57 x 4.8-5.5 µm, apex +/- hemisph., thin-walled, IKI-, with croziers. Sp. *7-9 x 2.3-2.7 µm, straight, ellipsoid-subclavate, OCl 1-1.5 a few small LBs near each end.
Piotr was quite sure about the identity. Well, I see that the characters are very similar to nigrofusca too. So the name complicata is a good choice :-)
Zotto
Michel Hairaud,
12-03-2014 23:06
Re : An Incrupila like collection
Hi Enrique,
Thnak you for your message.
I suppose your plate here represents C. complicata ? I cannot see crystals on the hairs
DO you also have a plate for he other species and did you actually observe noticeable differences between the 2 species ?
AMitiés
Michel
Thnak you for your message.
I suppose your plate here represents C. complicata ? I cannot see crystals on the hairs
DO you also have a plate for he other species and did you actually observe noticeable differences between the 2 species ?
AMitiés
Michel
Michel Hairaud,
12-03-2014 23:15
Re : An Incrupila like collection
Thanks Zotto for this description , no crystals mentionned but the pictures in your file do show the same type of crystals noticeable in my collection.
Michel
Michel
Michel Hairaud,
13-03-2014 10:17
Re : An Incrupila like collection
Sorry I wanted to add that I also noticed as you did on your plate the green shade on margin hairs .
Michel
Michel
