20-11-2008 15:59
Alain GARDIENNET
Juste pour demander ce qui se fait de mieux pour d
19-11-2008 15:02
Yannick Mourgues
Bonjour à tous. Je m'interroge sur cette espè
15-11-2008 15:53
Roland LabbéIl y aura bientôt une photo d'un disco dont je me
Naemacyclus
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
26-11-2008 18:50
Tamaño de 1-1,5 x 0,5 mm, sobre acículas muertas de Pinus pinaster, levantando la corteza y formando dos barreras paralelas longitudinales. Esporas muy largas, de 157 x 4,4 micras, con 2 septos en la parte central y dos apéndices en forma de punta de lanza en los extremos. Ascas octospóricas, esporas dispuestas en espiral, IKI -. Paráfisis muy septadas, estranguladas en los septos de la base y muy ramificadas en las puntas (2-4 ramas). Excípulo compuesto por cadenas de células globosas-elipsoidales. Lo más parecido que encuentro es Naemacyclus minor, con esporas mucho más pequeñas y sin los apéndices de los extremos.Sporal measurement (in water, 1000x)
128.4 [150.7 ; 164.1] 186.4 x 3.4 [4.2 ; 4.6] 5.4
Q = 25.9 [33.8 ; 38.5] 46.4 ; N = 19 ; C = 95%
Me = 157.41 x 4.41 ; Qe = 36.16
Size of 1-1,5 x 0,5 mm, on dead needles of Pinus pinaster, raising the bark and splitting it with two parallel longitudinal scales. Very long spores, 157 x 4,4 microns, with 2 septa in the central part and two appendices with lance-top shape at the ends. Asci eight-spored, spores bundled spirally, IKI-. Paraphysis multiply septate, strangled on the base septa and very branched out in the tops (2-4 branches). Excipulum composed by chains of globular-ellipsoidal cells. The most similar species I have found is Naemacyclus minor, with smaller spores and without the appendices at the ends.
Thank you
Miguel Ángel Ribes
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
26-11-2008 18:52
Re:Naemacyclus
Another closed photo
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
26-11-2008 18:54
Re:Naemacyclus
IKI - asci
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
26-11-2008 18:57
Re:Naemacyclus
Spores with 2 central septa
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
26-11-2008 18:59
Re:Naemacyclus
Detail of spores end
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
26-11-2008 18:59
Re:Naemacyclus
Excipulum
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
26-11-2008 19:02
Re:Naemacyclus
Paraphysis multiply septate, constricted in the septa at the base and multifurcate at the top
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
26-11-2008 19:02
Re:Naemacyclus
More detailed paraphysis
Alain BRISSARD,
26-11-2008 21:04
Re:Naemacyclus
Il s'agit peut être de Naemacyclus niveus (Pers. : Fr.) Sacc. que j'ai observé sur aiguilles de Pinus maritima. A vérifier.
Salutations amicales
Alain
Salutations amicales
Alain
Hans-Otto Baral,
26-11-2008 23:13
Re:Naemacyclus
Hi Miguel & Alain
The genus was renamed to Cyclaneusma, while Naemacyclus is used for N. (Lasiostictis) fimbriatus, a completely different species with round stellate apothecia, but also on Pinus needles.
Cyclaneusma minus (= N. minor) was well figured by Piotr Perz here:
http://www.ascofrance.fr/index.php?r=bdd&page=fiche&id=1588
On his drawing you can see that also C. minus has these spore appendages. You write the apos are 0.5 mm wide. Butin says that minor has apos 140-240 µm wide while C. niveum 230-340 µm. Maybe this is in dry state, I do not know. So considering the rather long spores I also thnk this is C. niveum (= N. niveus)!
Finally, Butin lists for Pinus pinaster only C. niveum.
Zotto
The genus was renamed to Cyclaneusma, while Naemacyclus is used for N. (Lasiostictis) fimbriatus, a completely different species with round stellate apothecia, but also on Pinus needles.
Cyclaneusma minus (= N. minor) was well figured by Piotr Perz here:
http://www.ascofrance.fr/index.php?r=bdd&page=fiche&id=1588
On his drawing you can see that also C. minus has these spore appendages. You write the apos are 0.5 mm wide. Butin says that minor has apos 140-240 µm wide while C. niveum 230-340 µm. Maybe this is in dry state, I do not know. So considering the rather long spores I also thnk this is C. niveum (= N. niveus)!
Finally, Butin lists for Pinus pinaster only C. niveum.
Zotto
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
27-11-2008 00:32
Re:Naemacyclus
Thanks Alain, Zotto
I have make a new apos measurement with fresh material: 700-1000 x 400-500 µm. My specimen is exactly like Piotr Perz figure (C. minus), except by sporal measurement (half length). In Medardi's keys it appear spores "90-120 x 2-2,5 µm" in N. niveum, more near than mine, but he said that it hasn't septa¿¿???
If you consider than the rather long spores is so determinant... then C. niveum is Ok.
Thanks again
Miguel Ángel Ribes
I have make a new apos measurement with fresh material: 700-1000 x 400-500 µm. My specimen is exactly like Piotr Perz figure (C. minus), except by sporal measurement (half length). In Medardi's keys it appear spores "90-120 x 2-2,5 µm" in N. niveum, more near than mine, but he said that it hasn't septa¿¿???
If you consider than the rather long spores is so determinant... then C. niveum is Ok.
Thanks again
Miguel Ángel Ribes
Hans-Otto Baral,
27-11-2008 12:29
Re:Naemacyclus
Septa are easily overlooked, I also did not see them in my old study (HB 1561). I have not often studied this genus, so I do not know how variable spore length is. Spore length also depends on whether you measure the distance between the ends, or the real length along the curved spore, finally differences between living and dead are to be expected.
Butin says minus: 81.8-92.5 x 2.5-3 µm
niveum: 91-100 x 2.5-3.5 µm
(I do not know how he measured).
How did you measure, distance or along the curvature?
Zotto
Butin says minus: 81.8-92.5 x 2.5-3 µm
niveum: 91-100 x 2.5-3.5 µm
(I do not know how he measured).
How did you measure, distance or along the curvature?
Zotto
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
27-11-2008 13:52
Re:Naemacyclus
Hi Zotto
I have measure the spores along the curvature, with the new Piximetre 3.8 version that allows to do different segments to draw the spore shape. Perhaps if I had measured the distance between the ends I had shorter mesarues already 90-120. This night I will make this. I haven't thought about this. And I have only make sporal measures in water, so I suppose these are not dead.
Thank you veru much
Miguel Ángel Ribes
I have measure the spores along the curvature, with the new Piximetre 3.8 version that allows to do different segments to draw the spore shape. Perhaps if I had measured the distance between the ends I had shorter mesarues already 90-120. This night I will make this. I haven't thought about this. And I have only make sporal measures in water, so I suppose these are not dead.
Thank you veru much
Miguel Ángel Ribes
Hans-Otto Baral,
27-11-2008 17:49
Re:Naemacyclus
Piximetre is surely a good tool (I never used it but i saw it). Yet it does not allow to messure the length of helicoid spores?
Zotto
Zotto
Miguel Ángel Ribes,
27-11-2008 21:21
Re:Naemacyclus
Yes, you can to measure any spore with any shape along the curvature. See the picture.
Thanks
Miguel Á. Ribes
Thanks
Miguel Á. Ribes
